Michael Jackson

For Episode 95, we finally take on the King of Pop: Michael Jackson.

Sounds easy, right? Just grab six monster hits and call it a day? Not so fast, moonwalker. This is The Perfect Album Side, which means rules, categories, painful omissions, questionable research, and at least one moment where Steve has to look directly into the man in the mirror and admit he screwed up.

We build the perfect Michael Jackson side across album openers, iconic videos, duets, number-one hits, wild cards, and album closers...

Along the way: the glove, the fedora, the moonwalk, Janet Jackson, Paul McCartney, a rat ballad, “Annie, are you okay?”, and enough massive songs left off the final side to start a street fight at a karaoke bar.

It’s Michael Jackson. It’s impossible. We did it anyway.

One idea.  Six songs.  Infinite possibilities...

Transcript

Classy Pop Song For A Rat Movie

SPEAKER_07 0:00

This might be the classiest, most emotionally convincing pop hit ever attached to a rat movie.

SPEAKER_08 0:07

Welcome to the perfect album side. One idea, six songs, infinite possibilities.

SPEAKER_07 0:30

Perfect album side podcast. My name is Steve. His name is Wyndham. Hello, sir. Did I frighten you? Yes, startled. Uh, what episode are we on?

SPEAKER_06 0:42

94? Welcome to episode 95. 95. You think it after 94 full episodes that I would get used to that, but boy, that one caught me off guard.

SPEAKER_07 0:52

You have heard the opening heard around the world 94 times and now 95, and that time it seemed to frighten you. You looked startled.

SPEAKER_06 1:00

I wasn't ready for it because I was trying to record the episode and then you just fired it off. That's what I do. Man, how are you? I'm great. I'm excited for this episode. A little bit of some uh technical difficulties getting started today, but I think I think we're ready to roll. I am I told you already, I'm excited about this episode. And and secondly, what took us so long?

SPEAKER_07 1:23

I first of all, I'm equally as excited. This is, and we say this a lot on the Perfect Down Side podcast, how excited we are about an episode, and we generally normally are, but this one's this one's a little special. We're gonna get to why and in in a few minutes, and we're gonna talk a little bit more about that momentarily. I want to hear from you. Uh, how is life? Life is great. Number one, life is great. I have a series of questions. Can you may I get them out, please, before you start answering them? Uh yeah. I mean, I have to finish the question before you you just fire things on it. I don't care anymore. Uh you doing okay?

SPEAKER_06 1:57

I never mind, I lost the moment.

Mount Joy Concert And Listener Challenge

SPEAKER_07 1:59

Yes. I think you told me uh a few moments ago that you had recently been to a concert or live music, and I know nothing about that. I I would like to hear more about it.

SPEAKER_06 2:08

Uh, it's on purpose. I because I wanted a genuine reaction. This was a band that I don't know a lot about, and I've started listening to them more since the concert, and uh a band that I is not my generation, so I we were definitely some of the oldest ones there. But this is a band we saw at Chastain. You know Chastain. Uh Chastain, the great outdoor amphitheater of Atlanta, Georgia. It's a great place to see live music, especially this time of year when it's not super hot, it feels nice. We saw a band called Mount Joy. Do you know Mount Joy? No. Okay. Should I? Uh I don't know. I said the same thing, and I kind of felt like, yes, I should know who this band is. Um take my Almond Joy? I love I don't like Almond Joy. Is that how covered? Mounds? Mound Joy? Mountain Joy? Both of them. Mounds. Yes. Almond Joy has nuts. Uh Mounds don't. Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't. I we saw this band. This is a mixture to me of My Morning Jacket, Mumford and Sons, Fish. Tara said she thought she heard Steely Dan in there. I didn't, but that's okay. Very hippie band, very young. Packed House.

SPEAKER_07 3:21

All those bands you mentioned are exquisite technical musicians. I mean, the bands that that you referenced from Steely Dan to Fish to whatnot. Uh is this one of those bands?

SPEAKER_06 3:32

Yeah, I mean, incredibly talented musicians. Hip hippie band, packed house. It's been a long time since I've seen Chastain.

SPEAKER_07 3:39

It's been a long time since I've rock and rolled.

SPEAKER_06 3:41

It has ah, it's my deal song. Uh but it this place was packed to the house, uh or packed to the gills. People were bursting out of Chastain. I've never seen it like that.

SPEAKER_07 3:51

Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_06 3:52

That should tell you how good this band is. I it like I said, I didn't know a lot about them. Tara pulled this off and was like, let's go. I was like, sure. Tara being your lovely bride. My wife of of just about 25 years coming up here in the next uh couple months. So uh anyway, for all you listeners out there, I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on Mount Joy. Uh come find us on the social sites. Tell us if you know Mount Joy, tell us what you think, but tell us who do they remind you of? What do you hear in that music? Because it's it's unique, but I you gotta hear some of this, Stone Cold. This is uh this is the new band that's coming out.

SPEAKER_07 4:29

I'm guessing that they're in the same vein as a lot of my friends are are fans of the the band Goose or Billy Strings, um some of those jam bands, uh, in addition to that. Uh is it in the same genre?

SPEAKER_06 4:40

Yeah, I wouldn't consider I mean Goose and Strings are jam. This is not a jam band. Just think my morning jacket. That's who I heard the most. And uh good band, but I'd like to hear from the from our listeners. Uh check us out on uh at perfect album sid. Tell us what you think of that band. If you know them, what do you think? Who do they remind you of? But uh like Goose, they've been around for a while, but they just got they got more popular later. Uh not right away. It took a few years. I mean Mount Joy Mountain Joy. Mount I like that name. Not Mount Joy. Mount.

SPEAKER_07 5:16

Oh, I thought it was Mountain Joy. Mount Joy. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 5:19

I have been to the top of Mount Joy, and it is a beautiful site. It is a wonderful place. I hope to return there on a pilgrimage.

Why Michael Jackson Took So Long

SPEAKER_07 5:27

Um Can we talk about today? Let's talk about today. I mean, but before you first of all, the perfect album side we're gonna build today is specific to an artist. We've done a lot of these shows in the past. Uh, The Black Crows, Van Halen, Pearl Jam, Collective Soul. Who am I missing? Who else have we done, Wyndham?

SPEAKER_06 5:48

Uh we've we've done Athens bands, we've done Atlanta bands, we've done specific bands. Uh, those are some really good ones. We did GR, we did Bon Jovi.

SPEAKER_07 5:57

Oh, yeah, G and R and Bon Jovi. This is gonna be one of those episodes.

SPEAKER_06 6:02

And I can't believe it took 95, nine times 95 episodes before we got to this guy.

SPEAKER_07 6:10

95th episode, Michael Jackson, the king of pop. What else is there to say? It's time to build the perfect album side of Michael Jackson. And you know, you and I have had the last a couple of weeks to to build out our perfect album sides, and I and I started building mine, and I thought, well, this is gonna be this is gonna be pretty easy. You know, Michael Jackson's got a million hits, we'll pick six, we'll go. But as always, you know, we we had some some rules or some uh criteria, whatnot. Uh, you know, we can't repeat the same album. So, you know, it'd be very easy to just go, hey, here's thriller, side one, and and call it a day, but we can't do that. Cannot repeat albums. I couldn't repeat an album, you can't repeat an album. We might be able to repeat albums in the final cut of the perfect album side, but I could not repeat an album more than once, nor could you. That made it really, really hard.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

It made it really hard. I found out a lot about Michael Jackson that I didn't know. I ran across, we'll touch on these as we get into it. A lot of first artists to do this many times over, dot, dot, dot. I I found a lot of those. I know you did too. I didn't know he had as many hits, uh, number one hits rather that he had. Um and I just was blown away by what we were looking at. The criteria of not repeating albums made it difficult. Um, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_07 7:34

And just to be clear, to be, and I did it as well, but to be clear, we're not talking about the Jackson 5 or the Jacksons here. We're talking about Michael Jackson solo work. He had uh 10 solo albums. Uh, got to be there, Ben, Music in Me, Forever Michael, off the wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, History, and Invincible. Uh, his last album, Invincible of 2001. Whereas the Jackson 5, this caught me by surprise when maybe you too. I I was looking up how many albums they had. Take your guess. Seven. Fifteen. Unfortunately. Fifteen studio albums by the Jackson 5. This is all he did.

SPEAKER_06 8:11

You know, this was his life.

SPEAKER_07 8:13

His entire life. I mean, literally from eight, from age five till death. I mean, that that's this is what he did. Uh, and they, you know, they called him the king of pop for a reason. Uh, I mean, this guy was a child prodigy in the Jackson 5. He becomes the biggest pop star on earth, and then he spends the rest of his career trying to outrun his own legend. He changed the sound of pop, he changed the scale of music videos, uh, he became one of the few artists on earth whose catalog uh uh feels like modern mythology.

SPEAKER_06 8:49

So you saw Michael Jackson for one of three reasons. And they were in order. You saw that you saw him for all three reasons, but one reason stuck out over all of them. Voice, songs, moves. He had all of those things.

SPEAKER_07 9:08

Uh what category are you in, Stone Cold? Oh my god. Um, I mean, the songs for me is what did it. I mean, the the moves were cool, you know, when I was a kid. I don't I don't really care about dancing so much now, but when I was a kid, I was like, holy shit, the moonwalk, that's I was all about the moves. Um, you know, and just the the style, the the the aura, the persona, the the jacket, the glove, the hair, the shoes, the the the glittered socks. I mean, all of it. The guy was uh he was an enigma and he was amazing. And uh, you know, you and I both came up, uh, being being of similar ages, you know, we were there for the majority of his career. Maybe not the very, very beginning. You probably were, but I wasn't there at the very beginning. Um, but I mean, we grew up with this guy when we were eight, seven, eight, nine, ten years old. Uh, there he is on MTV at the you know, at the kind of at the beginning of MTV, and he's dominant.

SPEAKER_06 10:02

Dominating. He was everything. Um absolutely. I don't think his celebrity has been matched since.

SPEAKER_07 10:10

I think that the closest since Michael Jackson is Taylor Swift. I was gonna say Taylor Swift. I would agree. I mean, to me, it's it's Elvis and the Beatles, Michael Jackson, Taylor Swift, end of list.

SPEAKER_06 10:24

And I don't think Taylor Swift, I think Jackson is a lot closer to Elvis and the Beatles than Taylor Swift is to Michael Jackson.

SPEAKER_07 10:32

I don't know. I think Taylor Swift's gonna overtake them all.

SPEAKER_06 10:35

Well, but I mean I I it's hard to compare, but I think about Taylor Swift sitting in the luxury box at Arrowhead Stadium watching the Chiefs play. I can't imagine Michael Jackson ever being able to do that.

SPEAKER_07 10:48

Well, you know what's what's ironic or coincidental about what you just said is I got to see Michael Jackson in concert on the Victory Tour, July 6th, 1984. I remember because it was my brother's 14th birthday, July 6th, 1984, and where was I sitting? In the last row of Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Missouri. Uh that's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_06 11:12

That is unbelievable. And and I think I saw him either the next show or within a week. I saw him at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium in 1984 on the Victory Tour. I just think those two shows were really close to each other. We've talked about this.

SPEAKER_07 11:27

He played he they opened the Victory Tour at Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, Missouri. So like the we were there night one of the opening of that tour. Uh so I think you probably saw him, you know, late later in July or in August uh in Atlanta. But July 6th was the first uh concert of that series or of that tour. And I remember that the tickets were uh about$30, between$25 and$30, which was an obscene, obscene amount of money to pay for a concert ticket. I'm not, I cannot stress to you enough how obscene that number was at the time. And I know, you know, you think about now that's it's so silly, but$30 was was outrageous.

SPEAKER_06 12:08

Outrageous, totally outrageous. Um the crazy thing is, so I I saw them that tour, okay. Uh, and I'm trying to pull this up right now because I really think that you and I were pretty close. You were July, say that again, July 6th, 1984. Kansas City, Missouri. Arrowhead Stadium. Yeah, you you saw them July 6th. They played three nights at Arrowhead. Okay. And then they played uh they started moving a little bit further to the deeper south, and they played Atlanta Fulton County Stadium. And it was one of the best concerts I've ever seen. Uh I went with a guy, a buddy of mine, and he took seven or eight of us. His dad worked for CBS Records. The same guy took me to my first concert ever a few months prior, and that was Twitter. Hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_07 13:04

Hold Twisted Sister. He took me to Twisted, uh not Guar. Who was it? Twisted Sister and who I've heard the story.

SPEAKER_06 13:11

Dude, if it was Guar, you wouldn't hear about Twisted Sister. It would just be Guar.

SPEAKER_07 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:17

Um, but he he took me to the Fox Theater to see Twisted Sister with Y and T. We stayed 30 minutes because his mother was so terrified of what was going on around us. And and to make up for it, they took me to the Jackson's Victory Tour, and I'll never forget it. I thought it was the greatest moment. But we both saw him on that tour.

The Rules For Building Six Tracks

SPEAKER_07 13:39

Yeah, and and you know, your your first two concerts were Twisted Swister, Twisted Sister and Michael Jackson. That's not bad. Uh I think mine was Billy Joel and then Michael Jackson. So yeah, pretty, pretty good. Oh, that's pretty cool. Let's let's talk about uh today's episode. Um, you know, like I mentioned earlier, it'd be really easy to you know just produce a perfect album side of Michael Jackson's greatest hits and and be done with it, or just plus press play on thriller and be done with it. That's not what we're doing. As always, we have put structure uh around how we're gonna build our perfect album side, and it goes something like this. Uh the first track will be it has to be an album opener. He's got 10 album openers. So we we both chose an album open album opener. Uh we're gonna talk about uh what we believe to be the best or most iconic video uh for Michael Jackson. Um the a duet or a collaboration featuring Michael Jackson. Uh number four is any one of his number one hits, of which there are a million. Uh number five, a wild card spot. Anything goes as long as you're not repeating albums. And then number six is gonna be an album closer. If we've got time at the end, uh maybe we'll throw in an honorable mention or two. Oh but album opener, video, duet slash collaboration, number one hit, wild card album closer. That's the order we're gonna go in. That's what we're building today. Uh that's what I got. What are you are you ready? Is there gonna be crossover?

SPEAKER_06 15:08

Oh, there's there's gonna be so much crossover. Here's what's gonna be crazy. We talked about this. I don't think we I think we should just bring it out in the open. Elephant in the room, quiet part out loud. We are going to repeat albums when we get into the laboratory at the end of the episode, yes? I I think it'd be impossible not to. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_07 15:25

I could not repeat an album on my perfect album side. You could not repeat an album on your perfect album side. In the end, it's there might be three songs from the same album. We don't know, but we're gonna find out. My hope is that we're gonna tell the story of Michael Jackson from you know, from the time he was five or fourteen to the time of his death. Uh, and it's not gonna be all from one record, but we'll see what happens. We have no idea what's gonna happen. I don't know what songs you've brought, you don't know what songs I've brought. Uh, as per usual, I have the con to start us off. Let me uh let me get some music pulled up here, and we will get started with the perfect album side of Michael Jackson solo material. Are you ready, young man? I'm so ready. I wish we could get started. You know, before we get started. Before we get started.

Opener Pick Don’t Stop Till You Get Enough

SPEAKER_06 16:14

Here we go.

SPEAKER_07 16:15

Like every time I play a song, it's like, well, that's you know, but well, never mind. Well, let's just go. Here's the song that I chose for album opener from Michael Jackson.

SPEAKER_05 16:25

You know, I was I was wondering, you know, uh if you could keep on because the form has got a lot of power and it makes me feel like it makes me feel like that.

SPEAKER_07 16:58

What a bass line to open up a song. The song Don't Stop Till You Get Enough off the album Off the Wall. The album released August 10th, 1979. The single released a month before that, July 10th, 1979. Uh, recorded at multiple studios across the planet, written by Michael Jackson, produced by Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson off the epic record label, not Motown. We'll get to that later. Uh I mean, if you're looking for an MJ opener, it's almost impossible to beat this song. Uh it's the first track off Off the Wall, and it's the first time a grown-up Michael Jackson comes and kicks down the effing front door, if you know what I mean. Uh number one hit on the Billboard Hot 100. It was the first Michael Jackson number one that he wrote himself. Before this, he had already logged four number one hits with the Jackson 5 and another solo number one hit that he did not write. He would go on to co-write or write nine more number one hits, including We Are the World. He hit number one on the Billboard Soul singles, he reached number one in a billion countries, certified multi-platinum. And the song won the Grammy Award for this song for Best RB of vocal. His first Grammy was because of this song. It was also nominated for Best Disco Recording. The only year that category existed. Uh hey, can can I ask you a question, Wyndham Pridgeon? He lost the disco category. The Grammy. Can you can you think of the song that he lost to? Sister Sledge, we are family. I Will Survive by Gloria Gainer. Not even close. He also won an American Music Award. It's a great guest. Sister Sledge, alright. Uh won an American Music Award. It's regularly cited as the greatest disco pop, one of the greatest disco pop records ever made. Don't stop till you get enough. Windom, what say you about this? And dare I ask, is this song in this slot on your perfect album side?

SPEAKER_06 19:07

Uh what what say me? I say a lot. And I'll start with you bet your ass this is my my on my perfect album side. That's unbelievable! Got to be the best opener he's got. And here's what I found out uh just two seconds into this. This is the opener off Off the Wall, his fifth solo record. What? I always thought Off the Wall was like his debut record as a solo artist, but it was his fifth record, and one of his most famous, I just thought off the wall was either his debut or sophomore release. But his, as you mentioned, this was his first solo record with Quincy Jones. So that's something. But one of the most famous, I think one of the most famous Michael Jackson grooves in his entire catalog, especially the way it opens up. You got Lewis Johnson on bass, one of the best to ever do it, and his preferred bass stone cold is a music man stingray. Anyone else you know that plays a music man stingray?

SPEAKER_07 20:08

May I take a guess? Yes. Nikki Six of my No, I'm just kidding. Wind of Bridget, of course. Yes, it's right there.

SPEAKER_06 20:14

His may not be Tar Hill Blue like mine, but wow, uh, this is, I think, again, one of his best grooves. Uh Off the Wall was massive. Stevie Wonder was uh wrote on this song on this record. Paul McCarty wrote on this record. The record peaked at number three on the 200, but held number one spots across other charts. I thought Rock With You, which was the second track on this record. I thought those two songs go together just about as well. I think I think there's some other songs we may talk about, so I won't give examples, but don't stop till you get enough and Rock With You. I thought were very complimentary songs to go back to back, so I noticed that. Uh yep, he won his first Grammy solo, yes, you mentioned that, first AMA. Um, but I think here's one thing I'll share, Stone Cold. I thought this song was probably a bit more famous than we may realize. It introduces two Jackson signatures. First was that famous falsetto. Okay, he gets that really high pitch, but he keeps that falsetto. But the other thing that's spotlighted and introduced in this song is that Michael Jackson famous vocal hiccup. It literally, literally makes him tens and tens of millions of dollars on another record that I bet comes up later, but that famous vocal hiccup, which he absolutely perfected. Um, you also have Jim Gilstrap. We've talked about Jim Gilstrap before. He sings backup on this song. He is the lead singer on the theme to good times. We've talked about that on the perfect album side podcast. Awesome. Uh, and then Janet Jackson is in here.

Best Video Debate Thriller Versus Black Or White

SPEAKER_07 21:50

I think they credit her with percussions, but well, she Janet Jackson and Randy Jackson uh at the beginning, when you hear that uh percussion group. Going along with the bass. Like it sounds like they're playing Coke bottles and things like that. Well, they are. They got drumsticks hitting Coke bottles. It's Janet Jackson and Randy Jackson playing along. That's amazing. Which I thought was was really, really cool. Jackson said he had he had this melody in his head, and so he went to his brother Randy and he helped him, you know, kind of play it out on the piano and figure out the melody. But uh yeah, uh well, we're one for one. It's on mine, it's on yours, hence it's on the perfect album side as the number one opening track. Uh also heard on Seinfeld. This is also You know, I was gonna I was gonna bring up that very thing. On I think it was the 100th episode of Seinfeld. There's a scene, a montage where they're dancing, uh where everybody's dancing and whatnot, and they're playing this song. And I I can't hear this song without thinking of Seinfeld. And you are one of the few people on earth that I that I knew would know that about uh this song and Seinfeld. Uh don't stop seeking enough. It made mine, it made yours, hence it makes the. I'm gonna give you the con as we turn it over to the video portion. Uh, what video did you select uh for your perfect album side, good sir?

SPEAKER_06 23:06

I mean, I'm I think this is great, but I I mean, could there be a more obvious? I mean, sorry. I had to say it, but here we go. I mean, you heard the vocal hiccup to get things started. No big deal. I mean, do I even have to say it? This is thriller. Did this song do well? Uh, Thriller, off Thriller, 1982. I mean, sorry. Of all the songs we've spotlighted in 94 episodes. 94 and what, uh one-third episode, one-sixth of an episode. Nice. This has gotta be the most obvious selection in history. And Michael Jackson had amazing videos, and I bet we talk about some other videos before the episode's over. But this is considered one of the greatest records in history. Number one record, Jackson's first number one record. It sold 32 million copies. Uh, I would say to me, Stone Cold, this pro this record probably sparked my love for music. I listened to this over and I wore this tape out. Okay, I probably still have the tape somewhere. Uh, but the song Thriller released almost a year and a half after the record came out. Okay, that right there is crazy. Oh, here's something even more crazier. The song Thriller was the last single released on the record. The astonishing depth of his music. Okay, this was not a number one hit. This was not a number one hit. It was a top 10 hit, the seventh top 10 hit from this record. But let that sink in for a minute. Not a number one hit. This was not a number one hit.

SPEAKER_07 26:10

That is shocking. The I mean, what the F as the. You know what it was though? It was in episode number 70 of the Perfect Album Side podcast, Halloween songs that rock.

SPEAKER_06 26:22

Yes, because it does rock.

SPEAKER_07 26:23

It made that perfect album side. It also made the perfect album side of songs better known by their videos.

SPEAKER_06 26:29

Ah.

SPEAKER_07 26:30

In episode four of the perfect album side. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_06 26:33

Continue. I know I think that's good. I think let's jump right into that then. The video was named the greatest music video of all time by everyone, including the including the the you know penny saver quarterly. They all said this was the greatest video ever, directed by John Landis, who just did American Werewolf in London. Which makes sense because a little bit of that theme in this video, you can see that influence. The video premiered on MTV on December 2nd, 1983. The video was an instant hit. It doubled the sales of the record in about two weeks. Or caught it pro you don't want to mean it. Promoted. I gotcha. I gotcha. The video is credited for popularizing the music video industry. Here's the deal. Landis, John Landis considered a horror film guy, but he directed Animal House Trading Places, Spies Like Us, Twilight Zone the movie, a lot of Dan Aykroyd movies, apparently. And if there are any questions about how John or uh Dan Aykroyd got into the USA for Africa, there's the connection. Three amigos coming to America, and then of course Thriller. Here we go. Landis was famous for having the phrase see you next Wednesday in all his films. It's a reference to the first screenplay he ever did at age 16. And yes, see you next Wednesday is in Thriller. It's written on a movie poster outside the theater when Jackson was in the middle of the street.

SPEAKER_07 27:50

Now I knew that See You Next Wednesday was in the Thriller music video. I had no idea that that was a uh a repeatable thing for John Landis.

SPEAKER_06 27:59

Well, uh I don't want to do too much foreshadowing, but we may come back to that later in the episode. Jackson and his girlfriend played by Playboy Model. Hello Ola Ray.

SPEAKER_07 28:11

Oh, I'm familiar with her work. Not as an actress, until I thought she opened her work.

SPEAKER_06 28:17

I know who she is. Video holds the record for the most makeup artists in video history with 40. Vincent Price, as we're listening to now, his iconic horror voice. Uh ultra-famous zombie dance was choreographed by Michael Peters, who also choreographed the Beat It dance video. Celebrities on set every day, like Marlon Brando, Jackie Kennedy Onassis, Fred Astaire. Are you kidding? Michael's father Joseph Jackson was also on set, but Michael had him removed. Seinfeld also references the thriller video in the Muffin Tops episode. So cold. I just ran through a lot, and there's so much more to say, but let's get right down to it. Yeah, I played this as an obvious selection. Was I right or was I wrong? Is this on your perfect album side? This song is not on my perfect album side. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. I cannot wait to hear what blasphemy you decided should go ahead of this. This is how I reacted to what you just said. Okay, Stone Cold. I'm gonna give you the con. Humorous, if you will, since we're not taking the 95th episode seriously anymore.

SPEAKER_07 29:36

That's not on my perfect job on the side. And I'll and I'll play I'll play I'll play mine now. Just you know, just for shit. I'm stunned.

SPEAKER_06 29:46

Ladies and gentlemen across the world, I I I I can't make excuses for him. Here we go.

SPEAKER_07 30:27

A miracle has happened tonight. And the miracle is I have chosen Michael Jackson's black or white as my video selection. You know, let's let's address the elephant in the room. Why not thriller, of course? And the answer simply is uh I knew that you would pick it, and I can't repeat albums. You know, I I may want to use something off of a thriller album somewhere else. I couldn't repeat it. I knew that you would do it. It was a gamble because what if you went with something else and neither one of us picked thriller? Then we look foolish, but you saved us. Uh Michael Jackson, Black and White. Yeah. Well, the album Dangerous, uh, the album released November of 1991, the single released November 4th, 1991, uh written by Michael Jackson and Bill Bottrell, produced by the same two off the epic label. Uh, I mean, it's not just a a great song with a memorable, memorable video, this was a full-scale global video event. Uh, if the category is video, this pick, in my opinion, is pretty strong because the life that this video took on at the time when it came out. First of all, it was a number one hit, unlike your piece of trash, Thriller, which did not go to number one. A number one hit on the Billboard Hot 100. This was Jackson's 12th solo number one hit, tying him with Diana Ross and the Supremes for third most at the time, behind the Beatles and Elvis Presley. So again, we're talking Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson, Taylor Swift. I mean, the biggest names in music. Uh, it was also the fastest rising single in 22 years, jumping from 35 to 3 in its second week and reaching number one in week three, the quickest climb since the Beatles get back. It stayed at number one for seven weeks. Think about that. Thriller didn't do that. It reached number one in at least 20 countries, the best-selling single worldwide of 1992. It won the inaugural Billboard number one single honor. It was directed by John Landis. Same guy. I I mean this one. I don't remember that. Um the full video, much like Thriller, is 11 minutes long. It, you know, it was born to this enormous hype. It premiered on MTV, BET, and Fox simultaneously, starring Macaulay Calkin, George Went, and a pre-fame Tyra Banks are all on this video. It's got the famous face morphing uh technology at the end, which I think most of you will remember this video for, uh, which was, you know, at the time groundbreaking stuff. Um, you know, you know, I realize it's not thriller, but I think an argument could be made that it it is, I'm not gonna say on par with thriller, but it is still one of the biggest videos of all time by any artist. I mean, if you think about this, it premiered simultaneously in 69 countries to 500 million viewers tuned in to watch that video. Think about that for a second. 500 million viewers. That's Super Bowl numbers.

SPEAKER_06 33:31

Insane. And I think we're gonna talk videos for every song on today's episode. You you can't ignore it. Videos, or as Jackson called them, short films were a big big deal. Don't forget. We also saw Slash in this video.

SPEAKER_07 33:48

And and Macaulay Calkin and George Went. Uh Slash does not actually play, he does not actually one of the common misconceptions is that Slash plays the guitar if he does not play the guitar if on the album, but he did play it live with Michael Jackson in 1991 and 1992 at a couple of television events. So everybody kind of associates Slash with this song, or at least Guns N' Roses fans do. Am I wrong? I don't, I don't, I don't think he was in the video. Yeah, take that back. But he played it a lot with Jackson, or not a lot, a couple of times in 1991 and 92. It was the first thing that he did. Um he'll be the first one to tell you. He's like, listen to the tone of that guitar. It sounds nothing like me. He's like, I did play, I did play with him live a few times, and we played that, but it's not me. Um all right, so I mean it wasn't uh this wasn't a music video, this was a global television event event dressed up like a single release, and it had to make my perfect album side. I'm glad that Thriller made yours. This one made mine. Uh are we ready to go to the next category? You're pointing to me like you got something to say. I have something to ask.

SPEAKER_06 34:51

Uh I'm I'm I'm listening. John Landis did the video. He did. I foreshadowed a little bit on my video selection, which was Thriller. Yes. See you next Wednesday in this video.

SPEAKER_07 35:07

I I don't know. You you said that a moment ago, and I started thinking, I'm like, I I don't remember if it is. If it is or not, now I gotta go look it up. Is it absolutely already gonna read it? Absolutely is tell me.

SPEAKER_06 35:16

It absolutely is, and let's do one more thing about this song we talk about the mark of a great song is whether or not it's a parody. Weird out of the weird out of parody. I mean, if anyone was still wondering if this was one of the greatest songs in the analog, we know now.

SPEAKER_07 35:49

I'm gonna correct you on something because Weird Al called Michael Jackson and asked if he could do Snack All Night. And Michael Jackson said no. He asked him to leave this one alone because the song meant too much for him. He thought that the the the uh the the content of the song, the racial stuff, black or white, he's like, you know, he didn't want that one being made fun of. Uh so he he did try to parody it with a song called Snack All Night. Um but Jackson asked him to leave it alone because this one meant too much to him. Now, that rejection helped push out for a different comeback lane with Nirvana. Uh smells like a look of confusion on you.

SPEAKER_06 36:31

What is it? I'm like, first of all, I should just keep my mouth shut. But secondly, you're not the best in the business for nothing. That is insane what you just put behind that. Incredible.

SPEAKER_07 36:41

I mean, if you're gonna interrupt me and tell a story, at least have it be factually accurate. Well, that's two things I was wrong about.

SPEAKER_06 36:47

I said slash was in the video. Can you hear me? He wasn't. I said I said he did the parody, he didn't.

SPEAKER_07 36:54

I mean, d dude.

SPEAKER_06 36:57

I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut.

SPEAKER_07 36:58

Moving on. Uh, thriller made yours, black or white made mine. Are we ready to go to the next uh category which is duet slash collaboration? Uh I'm not sure which one of us has the common. Is it me or you at the time? Just go.

SPEAKER_06 37:10

Just go.

SPEAKER_07 37:11

Okay. All right, then just just go. This is the song that I chose. Well, let me make sure I do this first. Let me click a few buttons here, click this one, click that one, and the song I chose for duet or collaboration, uh, featuring Michael Jackson. Here we go. Janet Jackson and Michael Jackson, the song Scream off the album History, Pass Print, Book One, uh, released at Factory in New York City, written by Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Jimmy Jam, and Terry Lewis, produced by the same four on the epic label. Uh, the song Scream, featuring uh Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson, the second time Janet has appeared on this perfect album side already. Uh, you know, for me, this was the cleanest duet slash collaboration pick. Uh, it doesn't feel gimmicky or redundant. Uh it's just that the two most famous siblings in pop music teaming up uh at a moment of extreme public tension. If you remember correctly, I mean Michael Jackson's going through his the, you know, the trials and the payoffs and all of his all of that stuff, and you know, Jan Janet's going through her own stuff. They get together, record this song. Uh, you know, it's not a typical love song duet. I mean, this is uh this is an angry song, and it's one of my favorites. It debuted in the top five on the Billboard record, uh number five. It won multiple countries. Uh it won the Grammy Award for Best Music Video. It won three MTV VMAs, and for a long time it had the claim of being the most expensive music video ever made at$7 million, only to be surpassed by uh Guns N' Roses with the video for Estranged. Uh Wyndham, I'm gonna stop talking for just a second to ask you is this song on your perfect album side for Michael Jackson duets?

unknown 40:25

I do not know.

SPEAKER_06 40:28

No. It is not on my perfect side on your album side for duets or duets.

SPEAKER_07 40:35

Uh this song was Michael lashing out at the tabloid press after years of invasive and ugly coverage. Uh it was shaped by the fallout around 1993, child abuse allegations and the settlement there, uh, plus the surrounding media frenzy over his personal life, including his marriage to Lisa Marie Presley. Uh Janet joined partly as a show of sibling support for her brother. Uh Janet later recalled to the BBC Mike and I wrote that song in New York in his apartment. Yeah, she calls it Mike, which I thought was kind of cool. Uh during Janet Jackson's 2024 Together Again tour, she performed Scream alongside footage of Michael singing it, which is kind of cool. Uh, that's out on YouTube, you ought to go check it out. Uh, directed by Mark Romanek, the video was uh a very futuristic video. Really, one of my favorite uh Michael Jackson songs, actually, is this one uh with Janet. It it this is not a duet for chemistry, it is a duet for combat. What say you, Wyndham?

SPEAKER_06 41:36

I I think this song is so cool. Like, I love it that they got together, right? Michael Jackson had already cemented his fame, but this album or this rec uh song came out right after Janet Jackson's self-titled record, Janet, which was the number one record. Like, her popularity was still on the up, right? Michael had already, I mean, please, Michael was already cemented as a as a superstar, but Janet was still on her way up. Um I I thought this was interesting. One thing I know about this, it would become the first song ever in the 37-year at the time. We're talking 1995, so first song ever in the 37-year history of the Billboard High 100 to debut in the top five. Uh a lot of craziness about this. Radio stations were literally racing to get this song played before the official release. And one radio station in Los in Los Angeles played this song every hour on the hour until Epic Records issued a cease and desist order for them to stop. Uh one thing, too, if you remember this, Stone Cold, here we go again. Uh the video for this song was pretty incredible on the spaceship and all that.

SPEAKER_07 42:51

Uh it was very, very futuristic. Uh and like, you know, like they said, it was it was one of the most expensive videos ever made. Still is crazy.

SPEAKER_06 42:58

And it won all sorts of VMAs. It won a Grammy for best music video. This is 1995. Here's a here's a here's a question for you, Stone Cold. Any guesses as to when the first best music video Grammy was given out?

SPEAKER_07 43:14

Um, if I was a betting man, I would say the first best music video would have been in 1983.

SPEAKER_06 43:19

1984. That was a great guess. 1984, and it was handed out to Duran Duran for Girls on Film. Hungry Like the Wolf. Damn it! Damn it! Damn it, Random! Uh, but this song is incredible. Michael Jackson, here's something I didn't know, and I didn't know he did this on any of his music. He plays multiple instruments on this song, including the guitar.

SPEAKER_07 43:40

I read the same thing, and I was absolutely floored by that. You don't think of Michael Jackson as an instrumentalist. I mean, he's no Stevie Wonder, but apparently uh the guy can play multiple instruments too. Um, you know, one of the cool things I thought about this this particular song is you know, it's the duet category. And, you know, like I said, it Janet doesn't come in to to give him credit. The female softening. She comes in even harder than Michael does. I mean, it's aggressive. Um, so you know, you I I just when you hear about a a a duet between Michael and Janet, you probably think Janet's gonna play the softer role, but she comes in and kicks ass, uh, which I thought was really cool. Um, it's less of a duet and more of a unified front of the Jackson family.

SPEAKER_06 44:23

And and the song is very retaliatory, right? Of all the Leave Us Alone, uh a lot of the tabloids chasing him around. Remember, this is when some of the uh court stuff for Michael Jackson started to heat up.

SPEAKER_07 44:35

Yeah, I mentioned the the child molestation and the and the uh all that went along with it. Uh another interesting part uh about it for me, uh like you said, Michael plays a lot of the instruments. Um this was the well, I lost my train of thought. Let's move on.

SPEAKER_06 44:52

Uh another point to make, but I forgot what it was. I just thought it was interesting that sweet Janet Jackson was so angry in this song that she was pissed over. Oh, that now I remember.

SPEAKER_07 45:04

That's the value I bring, clearly. Well, there's a couple of things that come to mind. Number one, uh, you know, they they're they're recording it together, and they do it in two different studios, but as they were in New York, Michael does his take, and it was so good that Janet quietly just kind of said, Hey, I'm gonna wait and do mine back in in Minneapolis. She didn't want to follow his take, which I thought was pretty amazing. Talking about sibling rivalries there. That's amazing. Um I thought that was kind of cool. Uh that was my song for duets. Uh, what is yours, fine, sir?

SPEAKER_06 45:35

Well, I'm gonna dial it back. This is a repeat uh for me, Stone Cold. We're gonna go back to episode twelve the duets episode uh for mine. You've heard this before. I know what's coming.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Stay stay what you want, but don't play games with my affection. Take, take, take what you need, but don't leave me in your direction. All alone. I said home by phone, a window.

SPEAKER_06 46:29

Alright, so you've heard the duet version of this. You've gotten both artists in there. We've talked about this before, Stone Cold. One of my favorite songs, and I know we're supposed to go logically, right? We'll be smart about it, not necessarily use the heart, but say, say, say, Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney off the Pipes of Peace record, 1983. Lots of intrigue around this category. And not the only Jack O and Sir Paul duet that could have been chosen, Stone Cold, but recorded during McCartney's tug of war sessions, right around when Thriller was put together, but not released until Pipes of Peace. About 11 months after Thriller came out.

SPEAKER_07 47:09

Pipes of Peace is the Paul McCartney record. And they have a duet on there, and then they also have a duet on Thriller.

SPEAKER_06 47:18

The girl is mine, that's exactly right. Okay. Go ahead. This was a top 10 hit. Okay, number one hit. Number one hit! This is Michael Jackson's seventh top ten hit within 12 months. Jeez Louise, that's insane. Certified gold single. Now, here we go. We said this, and we're gonna say it the rest of the episode. And also an amazing music video. Now, we've talked about this part too. This is where it gets to the business side, the seedy business side of the music business stuff. Jackson stayed with the McCartney's during recording. And this is where the rift between McCartney and Jackson started. McCartney had a literally had a book with all the songs he owned the rights to. Anytime those songs got recorded, played on the radio, played in concert, McCartney got paid. Jackson became intrigued. And Jackson eventually bought the rights to all the Beatles songs. So he kind of said, Alright, well, I'm gonna show you. But this was an incredible video. Beatles producer George Martin produced a song. He said he instantly compared McCartney and Jackson, saying Jackson was not the musician McCartney was, but that Jackson had more of a superstar aura all over it.

SPEAKER_07 48:32

Uh he had a superstar aura more than a beetle. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:39

Okay. Well, because nobody knows that. Nobody would know that. You just said it. You just said it. I don't think that's what I said. I'm starting to talk about it. What did you say? He had a superstar aura around him. I didn't hear the beetle part. That sounds like something. You've got something to tell me in just a second. No, I don't. The B side to this single. Ode to a koala bear. Everybody knows that song. Who doesn't? Yeah, please. Talk about Grammys.

SPEAKER_07 49:10

Ode to a koala bear by Paul McCartney. By Paul McCartney.

SPEAKER_06 49:14

I don't know this song. I have to go listen to it. You'll have to go listen to it. Say, say, say makes my duet installment on today's perfect albicide.

SPEAKER_07 49:26

A great choice. Uh, not as good as mine, but still very good. Very good. Thank you for participating. You will receive a lovely prize at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_06 49:35

Very different. Very different songs. This is supposed to be a beat, kind of funny, right? The video was too carnies. The video was amusing. Yeah. Not angry and retaliatory. I can't say that word. Retaliatory. Yeah.

Choosing A Number One Hit

SPEAKER_07 49:50

You almost had it. Red, red leather. Red leather, yellow leather. Red leather, yellow leather. As we move on to the next category, it was listen, pick any one of Michael Jackson's number one hits. There are approximately 342 of them. You may pick one. You have the con, sir. You may go first. Oh, I've got the con. I just relented. And what I'm sorry, what category? Number one hit. Any one of Michael Jackson's 12,000 number one hits. Well, you may select.

SPEAKER_06 50:22

This is gonna be, I gotta tell you, this is gonna be a really, really short song to play. Uh as uh we've well let's hear it. You're about to, but I gotta tee it up. We've we've kind of talked about this already. Here we go.

SPEAKER_07 50:59

Now I understand why you knew so much about that song.

SPEAKER_06 51:04

Well, you're playing the video in the video version. That's why I had to tee it up. Sounds like my house.

SPEAKER_07 51:18

Unfortunately, when I hear this, I'm not going to have yellow songs.

SPEAKER_06 51:29

I want to do it. That's what we're getting about. We know that's took us a minute to know that so uh we've talked about this. I threw some down. Uh we Stone Cold already broke this one down. It's unbelievable. Uh Michael Jackson had 13 number one hits spanning from 1972. Or white by Michael Jackson. Yes. He had another 30 top 10 hits on top of the 13 number one hits. Good god. And I love the stat about get back by the Beatles. Unbelievable. Black or white makes my number one hit. Michael Jackson Dangerous 1991. All right.

SPEAKER_07 52:12

Uh as I get to my number one hit, you might now understand why I did not choose an earlier song. Let me share this. Let me click here.

SPEAKER_06 52:24

I mean it's it's one of two. It's one of two. It's this one.

SPEAKER_07 52:28

It's this one. This song made the perfect album side on episode eighty-eight, all the way to the bass. Yes. It also made the perfect album side of episode 65, the dance crazes episode, the moonwalk because of this song. It also made the perfect album side of one night only performances, episode five of the perfect album side, referring to the Motown 25, that great night in 1983. Uh Billy Jean, I mean, look, it's it there's no arguing with this. It's Michael Jackson's signature song. It's the biggest song of all time. It was a number one hit. Uh released November 1982. Uh excuse me, the album was released in November of 82. The single released in January of 1983, written by Michael Jackson, produced by Quincy Jones and MJ, Epic Record label. Uh, you know, hit number one on the Billboard, hot one, Hot 100, hit number one on the RB chart, hit number one in the UK, one of the biggest singles of 1983, certified Diamond in the US. It won two Grammy Awards, it won an American Music Award, it regularly appears on every greatest song ever list ever made. Uh, it helped drive the album Thriller into one of the all-time biggest albums, if not the biggest album of all time. Uh look, it's Billy Jean. We could go on for days about it, but I won't do that. Uh it's the signature tune of Michael Jackson. It had to make my perfect album side for number one hits. What say you mind?

SPEAKER_06 54:28

Uh, couple things. My favorite Michael Jackson song. Uh I just think it is, and I think it's for all the things you said. I think the lyrics are amazing. The singing, it's got the vocal hiccup, which you've talked about. The music is good. To me, it's the moonwalk, it's the dance. I was a moves guy when it came to Michael Jackson, and the fact that he did this on the Motown 25 was unbelievable. Um I recorded when we got a VCR all those years ago.

SPEAKER_07 54:54

That's a video cassette recorder to those of you under the age of seven.

SPEAKER_06 54:57

The precursor to the DVD player. Uh, I recorded uh the Friday night videos or whatever was on NBC back then.

SPEAKER_07 55:08

NBC's Friday Night Videos.

SPEAKER_06 55:09

I recorded that for like a month to see how many copies of this video I could get, and I could watch it whenever I wanted. Uh and for those keeping score at home, we talked about my Carolina Blue, Tar Heel Blue music man Stingray, uh, but I have I can also play this on the bass.

SPEAKER_07 55:27

Outstanding. I can play it on the drums, so we should get together soon. We should.

SPEAKER_06 55:30

I didn't know you played drums.

SPEAKER_07 55:32

Yeah, if Michael Jackson has one song that belongs in every final courtroom argument about his greatness, it's this one. That's it. That's the end of my spiel. It's Billie Jean, it's Michael Jackson, it's number one hit. This is everything biggest Michael Jackson song on the world.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

This is everything.

Wildcard Surprise Ben And The Pearl Jam Link

SPEAKER_07 55:51

This is it. Wasn't that the name of his comeback tour? This is it? It was. How about that? That's that's full circle, baby. Uh, Michael Jackson's thriller made mine. It did not make yours, but it will make the moving on. That's Billie Jean, not thriller. Thank you. What did I say? You said thriller. Sorry. Uh you know what I meant. Uh moving on. Wildcard is the category. Any song you could think of that you think should be on the perfect album side, I believe you have the con on this one again. Um yeah, anything you want as long as it's not a repeating repeated album.

SPEAKER_06 56:25

It's not. And this one, I'm telling you, Stone Cold, this one is going to be the outlier of all the songs we're going through today. This one is so different. Let's hear it. Let's see. Turn it up.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

In the two of us needed no more. We both found what we were looking for with the friend to come on. I'll never be alone. Any of you my friend will see. You gotta friend me.

SPEAKER_06 57:31

I mean, everything that's opposite of what we've already talked about on this episode, Stoke Cold. This is Ben off the album Ben, 1972, Michael Jackson's first number one hit as a solo artist. This is what started all of it. Okay, it's so polar opposite of everything we've covered already on the episode. I didn't know this song very well, but the riff is very familiar. It sounds like it should be in a Willy Wonka movie. Like, I I figure this is Charlie walking through the village square with Candy. I don't know why. I totally I totally hear what you're saying. Yeah, I get I get that. This won a Golden Globe for Best Movie Song, but it lost the Oscar for Best Movie Song to the Poseidon Adventure. It was originally written for Donnie Osman. He was touring, he couldn't record it, so they offered it to Michael Jackson, who jumped on it. Uh really showcases his voice more than anything. This is not this is not the moves, right? This is not the music, it's the it's his voice. But at the age of 14, he became the third youngest to have a solo number one hit on the Hot 100. Behind Stevie Wonder at age 13 with fingertips, and Donnie Osmond, who was just barely younger than Michael Jackson was, uh, when he And the song was supposed to go to Donnie Osmond? This was supposed to go to Donnie Osmond, yes, but he Donnie Osmond had another song that went to number one when he was younger than Michael Jackson. That was Go Away Little Girl. But this song Stone Cold. I don't know if do you know anything about this song? It's about a pet rat too.

SPEAKER_07 59:11

Well well, the it's it's from the the the soundtrack of uh the movie of Ben, which was a sequel to the movie Willard, which is about a whole town of rats that take over, and then Ben, the rat, befriends a small boy who has a heart condition and they grow to go up together. Uh Jackson was 14 and he recorded became the youngest person in the top 100, but both as a soloist and a member of a group via the Jackson 5. It hit number one in the Billboard Hot 100. It was Michael Jackson's first solo number one, also reached number one in Australia, top 10 in the UK, won the Golden Globe for Best Song, nominated for Academy Award for Best Original Song, ranked by Billboard among the most notable songs of 1972. So I know a few things about it. Do you know why? If it's not on your perfect album side, then it's on my perfect album side in this spot as well.

SPEAKER_06 59:57

I have no business on this podcast if this isn't on your perfect album side.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:01

It's on my perfect album side. Uh in the in the same spot, the wild card spot. I mean, the his first number one hit, of course. Uh look, there's there's one more nugget about this song that I was gonna drop if you're okay with it. The con is yours. At the very beginning, the first line of the song, uh Michael Jackson sings, um, Ben, the two of us need to look no more. Uh and some of you might recognize that line. Uh, I certainly do. As a as a you know, we we've done a whole episode on Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam has a song entitled Rats. Now you think about this. This song, Ben, is about a rat. And it's about the movie that involves rats taking over. At the end of the song Rats by Pearl Jam, and I'm gonna take over the con if you don't mind, and share this because I want to play something for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:52

Listen closely to the end of the song Rats by Pearl Jam. Remember the line was Ben, the two of us need look no more. That's the opening line from the Michael Jackson song. This is the end of the Pearl Jam song. Uh it's fascinating because the you know, Michael Jackson's song obviously is is incredibly beautiful, and his voice is unbelievable uh as a 14-year-old. Uh, but then to have it be about rats is crazy. This might be the classiest, most emotionally convincing pop hit ever attached to a rat movie. I mean, I've always thought that.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:59

So I mean, I'd have to go back and re-listen to the soundtrack to Charlotte's Webb. Sure. Yeah. That's the only one that I think, or Stuart Little.

Closers Smooth Criminal And A Tracklist Mixup

SPEAKER_07 1:02:07

Uh well, uh, you know, this is almost certainly the most popular song about a rodent, but it's not the only one. In 1976, Captain and Teneal hit number four in the US with uh Musk Rat Love. So, you know, multiple top five songs about rats, apparently. But uh again, you know, this is probably the most elegant song ever written about a rat, and and somehow that still undersells it. Incredible song. It's on yours, it's on mine, it's on the Ben by Michael Jackson. Incredible. I can't believe it's gonna be on there. Uh it's it is, it's a great song. It's one of my favorite Michael Jackson songs, and apparently yours too. Uh that song makes the perfect album side. We have to album closers. I'd no idea who has a con at this point. Go for it, just keep it. Just go, go, go. Okay. All right, here we go. Uh, this song made my perfect album side for album closer. I wouldn't be surprised if it made yours. Let's see.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

I'm gonna make a change for once in my life. It's gonna feel real good. Gonna make a difference. Gonna make it rice.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:59

Man in the mirror of the bad album. The album released August 31st, 1987. The single released January 16th, 1988. Uh, recorded at Westlake Studio D in Los Angeles, uh, produced by Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson, written by Sada Garrett and Glenn Ballard, so not written by Michael Jackson, um, which is an interesting thing. It's his, I think it's his only number one hit that was not written by Michael Jackson. It did hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100. This was the fourth of five US number one hits from the bad album. Uh, it also reached number one on the US RB and dance-related charts. Uh, it also returned to the charts after Michael Jackson's death in 2009. It was nominated for Record of the Year at the Grammys and is regularly cited as one of Michael Jackson's finest vocal performances. Wyndham Pridgeon did this song, Make Your Perfect Album Side, uh, for Album Closer. Not exactly. Not exactly. I can't wait to hear more about that momentarily, since I'll keep rambling about this song for a moment.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:10

Um This is gonna be really fun here in just a minute.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:14

Alright, a couple interesting things about this one. Uh, there's a gospel choir that sings along with this song. Uh, the Andre Crouch Gospel Choir uh gives the song its big gospel sweep. We've talked about this song before on episode 30, Hit Songs that featured a choir. And on that episode, we talked about the Andre Crouch Gospel Choir because they also are on Madonna's Like a Prayer single, as well as Rick Astley's Cry for Help. So this is this uh this gospel choir has gotten some big hits. Um, you know, Michael Jackson barely appears in this video at all. It's just uh the the clip uses montages of historical, political, and humanitarian imagery rather than a performance concept. Um, but it it's a pretty Powerful video. Again, not written by Michael, but unquestionably one of his defining performances. And in my opinion, one of the greatest key changes in the history of pop music is in this song. This song lands like a closing statement or a benediction. It doesn't just close the album, it feels like a curtain call after the start. And it's one of my favorite songs by Michael Jackson. Hey, and I want to give a shout out to one of our listeners in Illinois. Michael from Illinois texted me this week and said, Hey, if you're doing one on Michael Jackson, you gotta put this song on there. So, Michael in Illinois, this one's for you, my man. Windham, what say you about this song?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:39

This song is amazing. Um, I think it's a fun song, it's got a good groove. To me, the video is a heartbreaker. It is a tearjerker music video. Uh with all the Remember the uh baby Jessica, the girl falling over the bigger. Baby Jessica getting pulled out of the well. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I can't handle this. Um, but no, this is amazing. And I know exactly what you're talking about. The what you say it again, the octave change. Uh the key change.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:06

One of the biggest key changes in the history of pop music.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:08

It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:09

And they must have 30 people doing it at the exact same time. And I believe uh it's the first number one hit ever to feature the word shamon. I can't be certain of that, but shamon. You know, Michael Jackson's signature made-up word. First one to uh hit number one with that word.

unknown 1:07:26

Sham!

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Shamonic.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:29

Uh yeah, Man in the Mirror made my perfect album side. It closes out uh the album bad, and it that's an incredible album and an incredible way to finish it. Made my perfect album side. Uh what makes yours fine, sir? Maybe we should just listen let Michael play on out here. I turn the con over to you. What you got? Well, this is where things are about to get very interesting. It just occurred to me that something is is is off because this um how could this be?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:42

My sources say this is the last single, the last track listed on the original release of Bat. Don't pull it, don't, don't, don't I see that smirk. I I know that smirk. I've seen that smirk for 94 episodes. If you pull out the vinyl right now, fuck that.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:04

I don't I don't have the vinyl copy of this, but is it possible that if there were two different track listings of this song?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:11

The original release was side two or track number two idiot was Smooth Criminal, which is what we're listening to. Smooth Criminal 1987. This is the seventh single from Bad. And it's not even the last single released. It's the it's only the seventh. Two more singles after this were released. Nine total.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:38

But it was the You know, you can't believe everything you read on the internet. Let's just write that down. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:44

Listen, I'm gonna go for it. Uh I'm just gonna keep going like nothing's go nothing's wrong with it. Uh it's it it I have it as the last track on the release. Thriller gets all the attention, but here we go, Stone Cold. This record, and it goes for your your song too. As follow-up albums go, is bad not the greatest follow-up album in the history of music?

SPEAKER_07 1:10:07

I think there were five number one singles off the album Bad, which is insane. I mean, it can only be topped by one album, and that's Thriller. I mean, back to back. What a follow-up, yes, is the answer. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:18

Uh Bad was the fastest-selling album in its first week. It was the top-selling album in 96 and 87 and 88. It won two Grammys. And for the second song on my PAS, one of the most instantly recognizable riffs. In the Michael Jackson catalog, peaked at number seven, certified double platinum as a single. Rolling Stone called this the best blend of RB and rock in one song in the entire Jackson catalog. Now, here's the deal. This song came out of another Jackson single called Al Capone. Yes, you heard me, The Gangster. I looked up Al Capone, that song, I listened to it, and oh my gosh, it's the same song. So listen listeners out there, give a don't look up the song Al Capone by Michael Jackson. It is astonishing how exactly the same these two songs are. But this was also an amazing video. A short film, if you will, Stonefold, and other dance moves have been made famous by Michael Jackson. This video debuted the anti-gravity lean. You remember that in the video. Uh I just learned how they did that like a month ago. And they did it by catching the heel of his loafer into a bolt on the floor, holding his feet down and shredding his Achilles and hamstring in the process. Uh, but he leans to a 45-degree angle. Uh also, the famous fedora worn in the video was bought by Kim Kardashian. Uh, and you knew that already, Stone Colt. She bought it. Uh I mean, of course, I I I follow all of her purchases. She bought it with Michael Jackson's makeup still on the hat. Uh, she ended up giving it to her daughter. This video has surpassed over a billion views on YouTube, making it the fifth song in Jackson's catalog to have reached that milestone. Beat it, thriller, they don't care about us, and Billy Jean. Stone Cold, the perfect album side, has officially been hit by a smooth criminal. Outstanding.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:24

And you know, when we're when you're doing a show like this, you're gonna make mistakes. We were 95 episodes in. Well, it depends on who made it. I have not made a single mistake yet. I'm just saying, you've made plenty of I had never made one before until now. It hurts, doesn't it? This is what it feels like. Wait, so I was wrong. That's all I needed. I was wrong. Man in the Mirror is not the final track on bad. Uh yeah, apparently I'm not a strong reader.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:51

Well, it needed to be mentioned, even if we had to sneak it in illegitimately. That's an amazing song, amazing video.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:57

You know, what's funny is Is Smooth Criminal was gonna be my honorable mention song. I wanted to talk about that one. I think the Annie Are You OK is one of the greatest hooks of all time in music, and it had to be talked about. So I'm glad that you got that one in there. And Man in the Mirror is one of my favorite songs, and somehow I I simply screwed up. But let's move on. Uh, I think that's it. I think we're done. Do you have you? I think you had one honorable mention to talk about. I had one honorable mention, but guess what?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:19

Because mine was smooth criminal. We've we've already covered it. Mine was Scream. Okay. You didn't even ask me when I said all that stuff earlier. I was kind of like, oh, well, he may he may catch on that it's on here somewhere. But Scream was my honorable mention. I didn't even ask you.

In The Lab Final Tracklist And Wrap

SPEAKER_07 1:13:35

All right. It is time, as my good friend Wyndham has often said to me, it is time to get in the lab. We did have some crossover, we did have some screw-ups, we did have some technical difficulties, but we got there. Uh and Wyndham, you correct me if I'm wrong, because I've already been wrong a couple times tonight. So, you know, let's make sure that my facts are accurate here. For the album opener, I've sent you uh I've given you my my parchment, you've given me your parchment. Uh album opener, we both chose don't stop till you get enough off the off the wall album. Uh I I was really surprised that neither of us chose want to be starting something off of Thriller, but again, Thriller was used in other places. Uh Don't Stop Till You Get Enough Off the Wall makes uh the perfect album side. For video, you chose Thriller, I believe it's pronounced, and I chose uh black or white. Uh clearly the answer is thriller. It's the greatest video of all time. Um for the duet, uh, I went with Janet Jackson's and Michael Jackson's uh duet scream. You chose the Beatle and MJ with say say say. What do you think?

SPEAKER_06 1:14:44

I'm gonna go scream. And I say I'll tell you why. I I thought it was a different Janet Jackson, I thought it was brother sister, uh, I thought the video was amazing, just like say, say, say, but I still I'll I'll concede that one.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:58

Um as far as number one hit is concerned, uh I chose Billy Jean, you chose black or white. Uh what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 1:15:07

Well, uh I I I need a ruling on this one. We both had black or white on the perfect album side, but they weren't the same category. How does that impact the hence?

SPEAKER_07 1:15:18

I don't I don't I don't think it the hence qualify here. Okay. Um you know, I I think it's all things being equal, we might go that way, but uh I don't think all things are equal here.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:28

No, I it's not. The two songs, as amazing as they both are, they're definitely not equal, and I go Billy Jean.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:36

We had crossover on our wild card, which was shocking to me. We both picked Michael Jackson's first number one song as a solo artist with Benjamin. Yeah. I love it. Well, I I think you should be proud. It's a great song. Uh and Pearl Jam references it, so it's gotta be good. You know that. Uh for the final, for the final uh selection album closer, I chose Man in the Mirror, which is not in fact an album closer, and you chose Smooth Criminal, which apparently is the album closer off the album Bad. Uh Smooth Criminal is gonna be my number one uh whatchamacallit, honorable mention. So Smooth Criminal makes the perfect album side. The perfect album side of Michael Jackson. Don't stop till you get enough off the off the wall album. Thriller for the video off the thriller album. Uh, as far as duets, scream by Michael and Janet off history. Uh, the number one, you know, the biggest number one song, uh Billy Jean off of Thriller. Uh Ben off of the album Ben circa 1972 for our wild card. And closing out the perfect album side of Michael Jackson tunes is the greatest hook in the history of pop music. Annie, are you okay? Smooth criminal. Wow. What an episode. That's a lot. I mean, that is the thing to go through. There are 10 more songs we could talk about by Michael Jackson that are just as popular as these.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:59

Uh I I mean, Wannabe Starting Something didn't get mentioned, Beat It didn't get mentioned. No repeat albums, so you know. I didn't Thriller was mine early on the video, so that erased it for me for the rest of the episode. Uh tons and Rock With You. We talked about that as a little bit of a sister song to Don't Stop Till You Get Enough. But Song Bad. A song bad. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:22

So the way you make me feel. I mean, these are huge songs. I love that song. Huge songs. Oh, who doesn't? It's so good. Uh I mean, again, we Dirty Diana. Dirty Diana. One of my probably my favorite uh one of my favorite Michael Jackson songs. It's Michael Jackson goes metal and I dig that. Give me real quick, let's just have some fun with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:43

Give me three famous guitarists that Michael Jackson has played with in his music.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:49

Well, we talked about Slash, although he didn't play that one though. Eddie Van Halen on Beatles.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:56

Which didn't make Perfect Alpside. Yeah. Incredible absurd.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:00

Uh Eddie Van Halen. Um Steve um oh god. Steve Steve Stevens, right? Winner.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:06

Steve Stevens. He's not the best in the business for nothing, folks.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:08

Uh Steve Stevens played on uh which which which Jackson hit though. Oh we just talked about it. Which prompted the song? Dirty Diane. I mean, prompt prompted the call. Oh, Dirty Diana. Okay. Okay, yeah. Steve Stevens. Outstanding. Uh man, Michael Jackson. What a what an absolute uh what a career. I mean, what a pop. He's the king of pop. I mean, much like you were the king of podcasting, he is the king of pop.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:33

Well, after the smooth criminal thing, I feel like I you know kind of deserve a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:38

Well, I mean, uh yeah, after my uh Man in the Mirror football, I'm gonna go take a look at the man in the mirror and reprimand him thoroughly.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:44

Uh great episode. Thoroughly. Lot of nuggets in there. I don't know if anyone's keeping track of these nuggets.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:50

I mean, if we were going to McDonald's, we just ordered a 20-piece of McNuggets.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:54

You know, that's that's a lot of starting to sound good. Uh don't forget, check out Al Capone by Michael Jackson. See what major, major hit by Michael Jackson that song reminds you of. It's the same song. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:07

Uh Michael Jackson.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:10

That's it. That's it. That's all you gotta say. That's a great episode. Awesome.